• Junoweo
    Posts: 1
    Joined: Feb 3rd, 2016
    Mac Pro support issues so bad I have to switch
    Hi all. Just a heads up about an issue I have been dealing with for over a year. Basically what happened is that when Apple released High Sierra they changed the file system and their installer was not properly configured to support 3rd party drives and this essentially made my machine obsolete. The $1500 drive I bought to replace the original Mac drive had been working perfectly but was unable to update to any OS higher than Sierra and I literally could not pay Apple to fix the issue... I had weeks of downtime and brought my machine into physical Apple Stores at least 3 times and they couldn't get it to update until 2 weeks ago. It was an Apple Sr advisor that helped me resolve it, but he was only able to do so because he went outside of the normal procedure and basically just "thinking different" for a bit - It was actually information from the drive manufacturer that allowed us to get it working. Basically the Apple updater would only update an official Apple drive. We had to do a few drive swaps, update my original mac drive first, then clone it to the 3rd party drive with disk utility and then restore all the contents with migration assistant. The worst part about the whole experience is that Apple literally told me that they couldn't guarantee that they were going to do it again, and they clarified that installing anything 3 party on the machine would essentially void the warranty (they dance around this issue but if you pin them down they will tell you this) - I asked more than 1 Public relations person and also a rep from their business team and it stands right now, you can buy a Mac Pro but you can't buy any Apple Drives to put in it if you want to update, and so you therefore HAVE to buy a 3rd party drive, and if you experience any tech issues they may attempt to help you resolve it but if it becomes difficult they simply can tell you that it's the 3rd party drive and refuse to work on your machine. And by refuse I mean YOU CAN"T PAY THEM TO FIX IT. Furthermore although they acknowledged that the issue was 100 their fault , they also stated that they have no plans on changing their policy but they order me a pair of $170 Air Pods as compensation. Apple is making a product line that they can't support and are too broken on a corporate level to even realize it. I told them that after a 20 year career using the Mac Pro and Logic to compose video game scores for Epic franchises like Star Wars and Marvel, I would now be forced to switch to PC and Cubase because I know I can get support. Their only suggestion is to post something on some feedback website and hope that they decide to get their act together. I will probably continue to use Logic on an old mac because of the cool VI and some custom EXS samples I have, but I simply can't rely on it as the centerpiece of my studio anymore. I don't relish learning Cubase, but once I get beyond the learning curve I will at least have a rig that I can pay someone to fix if its not working. Oh and BTW 1000 tracks? Who in their right mind would use 1000 tracks? I have recorded massive orchestras where we double tracked strings and overdubbed brass, winds and choir and we also had man pre-lays with drum loops and synth parts etc. It was nowhere near 1000 tracks. Meanwhile the Metronome still shows the wrong BPM for 8th note meters, and this causes problems when trying to import MIDI files into Pro Tools, Sibelius etc... (Logic uses a BPM based on a Quarter Note for 8th note meters instead of a Dotted Quarter or 8th like its supposed to be) I think the company has completely lost touch with the Pro Customers and I can't run a business with a cool toy that lets you play with a 1000 tracks. I need something with a reasonable number of tracks that won't suddenly stop working one day because Apple changed their software and no longer supports hardware that it previously supported. Anyway. I am more than happy to share more details about my issues... I am not the only professional composer that has been forced to abaondon the platform.
  • iain-anderson
    Posts: 24
    Joined: Nov 1st, 2016
    Re: Mac Pro support issues so bad I have to switch
    Unfortunately you seem to have hit an edge case with a third-party upgrade that didn't work with the new file system, APFS. While Apple should probably sell a boot drive upgrade themselves, every time you install a non-standard part there's a small risk of incompatibility, immediately or down the line. It's not really the third-party SSD manufacturer's fault, because APFS hadn't been released when that drive was released. It's good Apple were able to eventually help you, but there's always a risk, and you got unlucky. I don't mean to sound flippant — I've had similar issues myself! I've upgraded boot drives and GPUs in my (older) Mac Pro, and while they usually worked OK, there are lingering issues. For example, I don't have a boot screen with my third-party GPU, so I can't use recovery mode or easily boot to alternative drives, and I can't return to the original GPU because a colony of ants made a home there. Infested with bugs, for real. :) These days, I mostly focus on external upgrades, which are faster and cheaper than before. To avoid further issues, you could buy an external Thunderbolt enclosure for your new drive, pop it in there, then reinstall the original boot drive. You can then leave the external drive permanently connected. The new Mac Pro might have the same limitation regarding the boot drive (not sure yet) but at least you will be able to install additional internal drives (via PCI) rather than replacing the existing drive. Apple have listened to pro needs, and the new system will be far more open to upgrades. It took a while, but the situation has improved.
  • buhardilla
    Posts: 1
    Joined: Sep 24th, 2012
    Re: Mac Pro support issues so bad I have to switch
    Hi junoweo, very surprised and sad for your bad hardware upgrade experience. I'm also a 20 old year apple user (from G3 era to Xeon intel processor). I support apple computers just for opposite to your experience. All mac computers that I owned gave me almost zero hardware problems and I stressed them to limit in the audio/video field. My macpro 2009 was flawless EFI upgraded from 4.1 to 5.1, replace processor to 2012 westmere xeon, news fast 4 internal SSD (OS included) , AMD RX580 GPU,.. and Mojave!. I don't know what was exactly your HD issue but a lot MacPro 2009-2012 towers has been successfully updated. There are good tutes and experiences in internet about updating proceedings (firmware, SSD, processors..) and advices about best compatible hardware.
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