Ask.Video
Forums
This thread relates to...
MIDI 101
MIDI Demystified
by: peterschwartz
More Info
  • Auntie Gaels
    Posts: 6
    Joined: Mar 5th, 2021
    Assigning Patches from Roland Juno DS-88 to Midi Track in Logic Pro X
    I have watched many hours of LogicPro X tutorials. I still can't figure out how to assign patches from my Roland Juno DS-88 to my midi file in Logic Pro X. What is the best tutorial to learn how to do that? I have an audio interface and I'm sure I have everything connected right. When I go to record a patch from the Juno, the sound jumps from one patch to a different patch. The patch list in the user's manual is not synchronized with what is in the actual keyboard so i haven't been able to set up all the program names in each bank. The names in the manual and on the keyboard's LCD display don't correspond with the program names. Many new names added or not there. Can someone please point me in the right direction...??? Also, after assigning patches to midi files, how do I save it and/or record it? I want to keep it in order to play it back with the new patch assignments so I can test it out.
    Reply
  • Joe A
    Posts: 1378
    Joined: Oct 1st, 2013
    Re: Assigning Patches from Roland Juno DS-88 to Midi Track in Logic Pro X
    Hi Auntie - You may have already seen it, but the video below discusses the use of MIDI Patch Change messages, and in fact uses Logic in the examples [the following video in the course [linked above] continues discussing Patch Changes]. When you talk about "assigning patches to midi files" I'm assuming you mean embedding Patch Change messages in a MIDI sequence/track in Logic, as discussed/shown in the video[s] -- if that's the case, then simply saving the Logic Project will save those embedded Patch Change messages. If the sounds in the synth don't match the patch lists in the synth's manual, maybe there's a newer manual or a supplementary MIDI patch list document available on the Roland support pages. Or, if the default patch list in the synth has been altered you could try resetting the synth to possibly restore factory default patches, but watch out -- that might mess with any songs you've recorded using the current patch set. And keep in mind, if the synth has older or newer firmware than the version that corresponds to the version of the manual, that could also account for a discrepancy in the patch lists. Btw, I've moved this thread to the Audio forum..
    Reply
  • Auntie Gaels
    Posts: 6
    Joined: Mar 5th, 2021
    Re: Assigning Patches from Roland Juno DS-88 to Midi Track in Logic Pro X
    Thank you for your response. I am very new to this, so please forgive my lack of terminology. I have to date watched over four hours so far of beginners tutorials for Logic Pro X and this video you have attached here seems a little bit advanced for my skill level, but I do appreciate it. I'm sure it will come in handy some day. Here is my specific issue: I took a pdf of orchestral sheet music and did manual notation in MuseScore in order to create a midi file, which I saved. I dragged the midi file into Logic Pro X, which took the midi file and automatically separated each orchestral instrument for me into different tracks (very cool). However, the default settings in Logic Pro selected programs like Hard Rock Guitar for the cello track or drums for the bassoon track. I figured out how to (in theory) record a specific midi track/region using the JUNO program that I selected, but it didn't work. When I hit the 'record' button to record just that midi region with a Juno program that I selected, it stayed on the program selection during the count-in, but the moment the playhead hit the very first midi event, it switched from the JUNO program that I selected, to a completely different JUNO program that I did not select. I tried to fix the issue by first watching and following along with Booker Edwards videos on External Midi Basics, where he demonstrates how to make remote changes and how to customize banks, etc. but the system in Logic would not let me modify the banks the way he was doing it so I couldn't complete the process. However, while I was trying to complete the process, I discovered that the numbers in the patch list from Roland's online manual (as well as the hardcopy manual) were not consistent with the program numbers on the JUNO LCD display. This created more confusion for me, but I believe this also means that this issue may not be entirely operator malfunction. So, the bottom line is that all I want is to do is change the programs that were automatically populated by Logic Pro, to the JUNO programs that I selected, in order to eventually record those programs I selected, so that I can create an mp3 or a wave file of the song I want it to be. But every time I hit record and the playhead hits the midi event, it still switches to a different Juno voice. *sigh* Any suggestions?
    Reply
  • Joe A
    Posts: 1378
    Joined: Oct 1st, 2013
    Re: Assigning Patches from Roland Juno DS-88 to Midi Track in Logic Pro X
    Hi Auntie - Ok, so you're creating a [multitrack] Standard MIDI File in the notation program (MuseScore?) and importing it into Logic. The ideal method would be to embed the correct Program Change message in each track while they're still in the notation program -- then when the SMF is exported/imported to Logic, as soon as you hit Play, the programs in the Roland synth should change to the correct instruments. If the notation program doesn't provide the opportunity to do that, then you'd have to import the SMF into Logic first, and then manually insert the correct Bank/Program Change messages at the beginning of each track, as shown in the video. But it sounds like either Logic or the notation program is automatically placing MIDI Bank/Program Change messages at bar1/beat1 on each track, and they're probably selecting sounds from the standard General MIDI Program Bank -- you're probably [almost certainly] using a different/custom Bank, which is why Logic is switching to the wrong sounds whenever you hit Play. You could just go into the Event List editor ["D"] and delete those incorrect Bank/Program Change messages from each track -- then the Roland should at least stay on the sounds you select on it manually. You'd have to select all those sounds by hand on the Roland each time you switch songs that use different track layouts, but at least that would let you play through the song with the correct sounds and bounce down to wav/mp3. The best thing would be to determine and insert the correct Bank and Program Change messages for each track -- once they're inserted the correct sounds should automatically be called up every time the song crosses bar1/beat1. Unfortunately, determining the correct MIDI Program Change Bank & Programs change message for each sound may not be that straightforward. Traditionally, Roland synths number patches using an octal scheme [groups of 8] while MIDI Program Change messages are arranged in multiple Banks of 127 Programs each. Maybe there's a Roland document that lists the actual MIDI Program Change Bank & Message numbers for all the sounds. If not, then you'd have to determine what they are for each sound, probably by recording on an extra track in Logic, selecting one of the desired Programs on the Roland, and then seeing if the Bank/Program message was recorded, which you could then copy to bar1/beat1 in the appropriate track[s] for that sound. Now you're right, this is fairly advanced stuff [especially for a newbie], but I'd still suggest that your best bet is the video [videos] I attached -- you'd have to get a handle on that stuff to be able to determine & embed the correct Bank/Program Change messages and have the sounds come up automatically every time you load/play a particular Logic Project. Alternatively, you could try bringing in someone who knows Logic really well to try and set up an Instrument Object in Logic's MIDI Environment that would include all the Bank/Program messages for that Roland synth -- that would be a very advanced task, but once it was set up it'd be easy to use to do what you want.
    Reply
  • Auntie Gaels
    Posts: 6
    Joined: Mar 5th, 2021
    Re: Assigning Patches from Roland Juno DS-88 to Midi Track in Logic Pro X
    Yikes. Definitely beyond my expertise at the moment. Not even sure what an Event List editor ["D"] is. I will not give up though. Thank you so much for taking the time to explain this to me. I will do my best to test out these options. Thank you!
    Reply
  • Joe A
    Posts: 1378
    Joined: Oct 1st, 2013
    Re: Assigning Patches from Roland Juno DS-88 to Midi Track in Logic Pro X
    Yes, if all that about entering Program Change messages is too advanced, just try this: - Select one of the imported MIDI Tracks/Regions - Hit "D" to open the Event List [see the screenshot] - Look for a Program Change message at bar 1 beat 1 [with the little # hashtag -- see the screenshot] - If you find one, select it and hit Delete - Load the correct sound for that track in the Roland - With the Program Change message deleted, if you play the song nothing should cause that sound to change -- it should stay - If it works for that track, repeat for all the imported MIDI Tracks/Regions - Play the song to make sure all tracks are playing the correct sounds - Bounce to a wav/mp3 audiofile
    Reply
  • Auntie Gaels
    Posts: 6
    Joined: Mar 5th, 2021
    Re: Assigning Patches from Roland Juno DS-88 to Midi Track in Logic Pro X
    Okay! This sounds do-able - I will test it out! Thank you so much!!! :D
    Reply
  • Auntie Gaels
    Posts: 6
    Joined: Mar 5th, 2021
    Re: Assigning Patches from Roland Juno DS-88 to Midi Track in Logic Pro X
    Hi Joe, I was able to delete the Program Change message (line 1 with the hashtag) and I was then able to hear the correct sound from my Roland - but now I'm not sure if I selected the wrong type of track or something else - because I cannot have more than one correct sound loaded for more than one track. It's either they all play the same sound or I just have only one track. So I tried to bounce just one track to a wave file, and the result was...nothing. No sound at all upon playback. But at least I'm able to hear the correct sound and at least now it doesn't bump to another program. I call that progress. So, what type of track should this be? It's a little confusing trying to determine what type of track to use. Thank you so much! Auntie
    Reply
  • Joe A
    Posts: 1378
    Joined: Oct 1st, 2013
    Re: Assigning Patches from Roland Juno DS-88 to Midi Track in Logic Pro X
    Hi Auntie - I'm not sure what kind of tracks Logic creates automatically when it unpacks an imported Standard MIDI File, but if you have different tracks with separate Regions on them for the different sounds [8?] in an external multitimbral synth [the Roland], you'd be best off using Instrument tracks with an External Instrument loaded in the Instrument slot for each track. Each External Instrument would be set to a different MIDI channel, corresponding to the MIDI channels used for the different Instrument sounds in the Roland. If the channels are correctly matched this should trigger the correct sound for each track. Since [AFAICT] the Roland doesn't have a separate audio output for each different Instrument, you'd have to bring the stereo output [with all the instrument sounds combined] back into Logic in an extra stereo Audio track, and record the .wav file on that track. [Note: since the audio would be external, you'd have to Bounce in real time, so you'd have to check Realtime instead of Offline Mode in the Bounce dialog box]. You set yourself a far more difficult task in Logic by using sounds from an external synth instead of using internal Instrument plug-ins, which would be much easier to set up and bounce, but it's still doable. Here's an article that describes how to set up for working with an external [hardware] instrument in Logic using the External Instrument plug-in: https://ask.audio/articles/incorporating-an-external-synth-or-sampler-into-logic-pro-x Note: if you're playing more than one instrument sound at the same time on the Roland, then you'll have to bring the combined stereo audio signal with all the instruments back into Logic as I described above, rather than how it's shown in the article..
    Reply
  • Joe A
    Posts: 1378
    Joined: Oct 1st, 2013
    Re: Assigning Patches from Roland Juno DS-88 to Midi Track in Logic Pro X
    Hi Auntie - Just in case it might help, here's a video that illustrates working with external hardware instruments. Most of it is demoed in Pro Tools [though everything could be applied equally to Logic], but starting around 3 minutes in it does show setting up the External Instrument plug-in in Logic. I'm afraid there's no way to make this a more straightforward "step a-b-c" kind of explanation because the steps would depend on the specifics of your setup and possibly settings in the Roland as well as in Logic. But maybe this will help a little..
    Reply
You must be logged in to post a reply
Subscribe to receive an email for each new post on this thread. Please login
Recent Threads
Recent Posts
Feedback
Course Advisor
Don't Know Where To Start?
Ask A Course Advisor
Ask Us!
Copy the link below and paste it into an email, forum, or Facebook to share this with your friends.
Make money when you share our links
Become an Ask.Video Affiliate!
The current affiliate rate is: 50%
Classes Start Next Week!
Live 8-week Online Certification Classes for: